Ειδικότητα στην Μεγάλη Βρετανία

[Wicked Witch]

No idea how they do it...

...are you sure you've got the story right?

...I've met people who claimed to have 'trained' in the UK, but in fact they were only observing for a month...or got 'staff grade posts' and claimed they were 'UK consultants'.

Training in the UK is not really that complicated!

Simple rules apply for all specialties and subspecialties:

Medical school (5years)-> FY 1->full GMC rego (point of entry for most greeks)->FY2-> core training + exams-> specialist higher training-> CCT

A 'reg' is a trainee doctor , anything for CT1 to ST6/8 (depending on specialty).

Often people still use the old nomenclature : CT1,2 = SHO ST3+= reg (the old training grades no longer exist!)

No need for exams/ scores to enter training at FY or Core level.

Entry into training is following a nation wide application and interview process, long listing is based on the' person specification ' for the job/grade you have applied for (available online) ,shortlisting is based on your achievements (scored according to the publicised shortlisting criteria).

Progression to higher training is dependent on exam success (membership of respective Royal College) and based on a nation wide application & interview process. Again,long listing is based on the' person specification ' for the job/grade you have applied for (available online) ,shortlisting is based on your achievements (scored according to the publicized shortlisting criteria).

For both core and higher training : once accepted into a rotation progression to the next level of training is depended on ARCP success. ARCP includes exams (as per your grade), audits, research, WBPAs ,competencies.

CCT is the end of all this.

CCT means you can start looking for a consultant job, or, go back to greece and be a recognized specialist.

If training is not your thing/need time out to build CV/ don't want to be a consultant etc, there is a parallel world of career grade doctors who hold permanent jobs but are not 'consultants'. These are :trust grades, staff grades and associate specialists (note AS is a grade that no longer exists, once an AS retires they are replaced by a staff grade).

...Simples

Τροποποιήθηκε 20 Σεπτεμβρίου 2013 από Mistress Bellissa

[Alexandros Boukas]

Απο όσο γνωρίζω οι στρατιωτικοί ιατροί μπορούν (κάποιοι - βλέπε και βυσμα) μα κάνουν μέρος της ειδικότητας στο εξωτερικό ενω πληρώνονται απο Ελλάδα. Το ίδιο μπορουν να κάνουν και οι Έλληνες ειδικευομενοι. Εχω γνωρίσει πολλούς που το κάνουν αυτο. Ουσιαστικά ΜΟΝΟ ΠΑΡΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΝ και δεν έχουν clinical duties. Δεν βλέπουν ασθενεις μόνοι τους, δε χειρουργουν μόνοι τους, δε κάνουν κλινικές μόνοι τους.

(Ισως μαζι με άλλο ναι, αλλά μόνοι τους όχι...)

[kopritis]

Αυτό έχω καταλάβει και εγώ.

Άλλωστε αυτοί που γνωρίζω έχουν κάνει ΜΕΡΟΣ της ειδικότητας έξω, και στην συντριπτική πλειοψηφία επιστρέφουν, δεν παραιτούνται (οπότε πρέπει να επιστρέψουν ένα αξιοσέβαστο ποσό στον Στρατό για την εκπαίδευσή τους), αλλά κολλάνε στην ετικέτα το "μετεκπαιδευθείς στην Αγγλία" ενώ οι περισσότεροι υπήρξαν απλώς τουρίστες.

Tnx for the analysis Mistress Belissa, αυτοί οι "trust grades, staff grades and associate specialists" μας μπερδεύουν !

Τροποποιήθηκε 20 Σεπτεμβρίου 2013 από kopritis

[Wicked Witch]

UK Doctors grades- What's in a name

Medical training in the UK has gone through two substantial overhauls in the last 20 years.

Titles are VERY important. Titles are linked to national contracts (working hours, leave etc). Titles stem from training arrangements (exam requirements, ARCP, VIVA etc). People have long memories and names tend to linger and confuse even whey they no longer apply.

Before the 'Calman reforms of 1996' chaos and anarchy ruled the land (PRHO, SHO, Registrar, Senior Registrar).

Calman, in 1996, standardised rotations and introduced the CCST. Calman grades were : PRHO, SHO,SPECIALIST Registrar (SpR)

Calman resulted in a huge bottle neck at SHO level (doctors waiting for an NTN) and this brought on MMC in 2007.

MMC (current) doctor grades are : FY 1&2, Core Training, SPECIALTY Registrar

Many current consultants trained pre-Calman...for many an SpR and an ST are the same thing, but this could not be further from the truth!

Eg SpRs had 2 full days a week (4 sessions) for research and 'special interest'. STs get half a day for each (2 sessions). SpRs did not have ARCPs.

In parallel to training grades there is a world of career grade doctors. The nomenclature has changed over the years, and with it the pay scales.

Trust grades, staff grades, associate specialists are now ' SPECIALTY DOCTORS' (for the Love of God do not confuse with Specialty Registrars).

Up until recently UK medical training was organised via the 'Deaneries'. This is going to change.

Local education and training boards (LETBs) will replace Deaneries and be governed by Health Education England.

A rose by any other name

Whatever you call the organisation that oversees training...they pay part of the trainees salary.The other part is paid by individual trusts.

The trust needs a certain number of docs to man the rota/ run clinics etc. Trainee numbers are uncertain. Sometimes all the posts are filled...other times not. Sometimes the Training Program Director allocates 2 trainees to a certain hospital within the rotation, other times none...

Long term doctor shortages are filed by the appointment of specialty doctors. The trust pays their entire salary. Short term vacancies can be filled by LAT and LAS appointments.

Long term...depending on service development the trust may create a consultant post by merging 2 specialty doctor posts.

Its all about the money, and money is tight these days.

COI: I often refer to 'specialty doctors' as 'staff grades' and its not right. I am old and set in my ways:P

[Giannis L.]

Καλησπέρα.

1.Κάποιος που κάνει αίτηση μέσω pathway για θέση academic clinical fellow μπορεί να κάνει ταυτόχρονα και για κανονική st θέση;σου δίνει αυτή τη δυνατότητα το pathway;

2.Μπορεί κάποιος να κάνει αίτηση σε 2 ειδικότητες; μέσω pathway και konetic;

[Wicked Witch]

What is this 'pathway' and 'konetic'?

[Giannis L.]

Pathway is an online system designed to manage specialty recruitment in 2013 and forms part of the Intrepid HR software suite used to administer training, education and career progression in the healthcare sector.Konetic i think is the same.

[Wicked Witch]

http://www.pathway-medical.com/

http://www.konetic.com/Medical_and_trainee_recruitment/

Is this it?

Τροποποιήθηκε 24 Σεπτεμβρίου 2013 από Mistress Bellissa

[Giannis L.]

https://secure.intrepidonline.co.uk/PATHWAY2013/sys_Pages/MainMenu/MainMenu.aspx

[Wicked Witch]

I must admit...I have never seen your website before (but then its been a while since I've applied for training...)

Looks dodgy/unofficial/middle man to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe someone else knows more?

I think you are looking for peads:

Training jobs can be found here:

https://paedjobs.rcpch.ac.uk/CAC/home.aspx

More info here:

http://www.mmc.nhs.uk/specialty_training_2013/specialty_training_2013/recruitment_process/stage_3_-_vacancies__applicat/job_advertisements__applicat.aspx

Other well known medical job sites are:

http://careers.bmj.com/careers/jobs/view-section.html?action=viewHospitalJobs

and http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/

Always look for training jobs via the RC websites.

Training jobs/NTN do not grow on trees, are not advertised throughout the year and are not offered via recruitment agencies.

[Alexandros Boukas]

http://www.intrepidpathway.co.uk

That's the one.

Πλέον μεγάλο μέρος των αιτησεων για training post γίνεται μέσω αυτού.

Δεν εχω ιδέα τι είναι το konetic

[Giannis L.]

ναι αυτό ειναι το intrepidpathway.Μπορείς να κάνεις 2 αιτήσεις μέσα απο αυτό το σύστημα;Δηλ.μια για academic clinical fellow και μία για κανονική ST θέση; ή μόνο μία;

[Alexandros Boukas]

Μπορείς να κάνεις αίτηση για όσες δουλειές θέλεις, εννοείται!

Καλή σου επιτυχία!

[NorthEast]

http://www.gmc-uk.org/publications/23431.asp?dm_i=OUY,1V53M,5IZI85,6OL88,1

[Wicked Witch]

...Are you surprised?

The comments section is an education.

How would you feel about a 'Communication skills Assessment ' by the GMC, with an added element of contemporary British slang and lore?

Mwahaha!

...I'll get my coat

[Alexandros Boukas]

Όταν προσλαμβάνουν γιατρούς που δε ξέρουν ούτε αγγλικά αλλά ούτε ιατρική τότε μήπως φταίει αυτός που τον προσέλαβε in the first place?

Κατά τα άλλα αλλά λόγια να αγαπιόμαστε.

Τροποποιήθηκε 2 Οκτωβρίου 2013 από alexoulis

[Wicked Witch]

Has anyone managed to get a staff grade/specialty doctor post recognised as training in Greece?

If so how did you do it?

I always thought this was easy but a friend of mine said she'd been told specialty doc doesn't count in Greece...?!

[sjjggst]

Has anyone managed to get a staff grade/specialty doctor post recognised as training in Greece?

If so how did you do it?

I always thought this was easy but a friend of mine said she'd been told specialty doc doesn't count in Greece...?!

That's really odd....the Central Council of Health (ΚΕ.Σ.Υ) tends to recognize almost anything as residency training....including electives, observerships, guided tours for tourists, romantic weekends in Cornwall and so forth....

Btw, didn't know that one could get a specialty doctor position without having a Greek CCT... (???).

[Wicked Witch]

You can get a staff grade job in the Uk if you have more than around 2 y experience in any county.

uk and overseas cct holders can end up working in staff grade jobs for a variety of reasons including choice... however a cct is definitely not a requirement in order to get the job!!!

[Giannis L.]

Is there any specific certificate for confirmation of ST1 competences?

Thank you....

[Wicked Witch]

...its called ARCP sign off...

you send it to the deanery...

Or you get someone to write ' this doc has worked with me for a year and achieved all his ST1 competencies as per the *insert speciality* core training curriculum.

*Beware: if you , by some miracle, get an ST2 job this way you will NOT be eligible for a UK CCT

[Alexandros Boukas]

.

*Beware: if you , by some miracle, get an ST2 job this way you will NOT be eligible for a UK CCT

that is NOT true

[Giannis L.]

Αυτό το ARCP το έψαξα παντού...(για pediatrics) και δεν βρήκα κάτι...μήπως ξέρετε που μπορώ να το βρώ;επίσης για foundation competences για το 2014 έβγαλαν μόνο ένα alternative certificate...ξέρετε αν για φέτος θα ισχύσει μόνο αυτό;

Ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ για όλη την βοήθεια σας....

[Wicked Witch]

that is NOT true

Interesting!

Can you elaborate how it would work for someone who gets into training by getting their Greek experience recognised, and then

applies for a cct?

[Wicked Witch]

http://specialtytraining.hee.nhs.uk/files/2013/10/Gold-Guide-2010.pdf

Page 23, para 5.3

But, good news!:

http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/cpfaqs.asp#30

I am not sure if anyone's tested/willing to test this...