Ειδικότητα στην Μεγάλη Βρετανία

[psaromenos]

Thank you so much for the information!Just one more question.If I do a LAS FY1(which not includes training, then I could apply for a FY2 post?I would have the competencies needed?

The LAT FY1 posts wanted to have expierence in the NHS..Do you Know any site that I can look for more LATs available???

[psaromenos]

Also,

I have found some jobs posts : Fellowships (similar to FY1).Is it like a LAT And LAS??

My problem is that I couldnt find any LAT post available, and one that I saw wanted to have worked before in NHS...

Where I can find the competencies needed for an FY2?

Thank you so much for the help and sorry for all these questions..

[Alexandros Boukas]

this is because you probably bumped into a bureaucratic cunt.

For the applications higher up (Core training) with national selection all you need is either IELTS the last 2 years (which means while you are in UK, probably working, which makes it ridiculous) or a letter from a consultant that you are currently working that your English are good. (I used the latter this year)

Τροποποιήθηκε 6 Μαΐου 2012 από alexoulis

[Alexandros Boukas]

Clinical Fellow is a vague term.

You need to ask which level is equivalent. If they say FY1, then consider it FY1 LAS.

I agree with my friend monkey man. LAT FY1s are hard to find and most of the times a long way from home. e.g. Cornwall, where I did mine.

Τροποποιήθηκε 6 Μαΐου 2012 από alexoulis

[gpelekanos]

"Your application has been withdrawn by the recruiting deanery"

Εάν επικοινωνήσω με το deanery μπορώ να μάθω τους λόγους που απέρριψαν την αίτηση μου; Συνηθίζεται;

Θα ήθελα να γνωρίζω ποιες ήταν η προτιμήσεις τους.

Ευχαριστώ.

[Wicked Witch]

Sounds like a long-listing problem....

'withdrawn' vs 'unsuccessful'

It could be something silly (someone thinks you have no right to work in the UK/somehow you've clicked a box that says you have no medical degree et c.).Contact them ASAP as you might be able to get back into the game.

It could be that you've missed something crucial (experience cap on the person specification).Contact them so that you know what went wrong and re-assess your plans accordingly.

[gpelekanos]

Sounds like a long-listing problem....

'withdrawn' vs 'unsuccessful'

It could be something silly (someone thinks you have no right to work in the UK/somehow you've clicked a box that says you have no medical degree et c.).Contact them ASAP as you might be able to get back into the game.

It could be that you've missed something crucial (experience cap on the person specification).Contact them so that you know what went wrong and re-assess your plans accordingly.

Ευχαριστώ!

[deinstein]

Παιδιά καλημέρα,

ήθελα να ρωτήσω κατά πόσο μπορεί κάποιος που είναι στο 6ο έτος και άρα δεν έχει ακόμα πτυχίο να κάνει αιτήσεις για FY2 πρίν το πτυχίο έτσι ώστε με το που θα πάρει τοπ χαρτί στο χέρι του να ξεκινάει? Στις αιτήσεις ζητάει εγγραφή στο gmc αλλά εφόσον δεν έχεις πτυχίο τί γίνεται?

[pas moi]

Παιδιά καλημέρα,

ήθελα να ρωτήσω κατά πόσο μπορεί κάποιος που είναι στο 6ο έτος και άρα δεν έχει ακόμα πτυχίο να κάνει αιτήσεις για FY2 πρίν το πτυχίο έτσι ώστε με το που θα πάρει τοπ χαρτί στο χέρι του να ξεκινάει? Στις αιτήσεις ζητάει εγγραφή στο gmc αλλά εφόσον δεν έχεις πτυχίο τί γίνεται?

Το αρχικό στάδιο μιας αίτησης είναι το longlisting. Σ'αυτό κάποιες γραμματείς (συνήθως) κοιτούν αν οι υποψηφιοι πληρούν τα απαραίτητα κριτήρια, ένα από τα οποία είναι να είσαι γραμμένος/η στο GMC. Αν στην αίτηση δεν δίνεται η επιλογή "pending GMC registration" τότε πολύ απλά θα απορριφθεί από αυτή την πρώτη φάση. Αν η αίτηση είναι ηλεκτρονική (most likely it will be) τότε πολύ πιθανόν να μη σε αφήσει το σύστημα από μόνο του να ολοκληρώσεις γιατί δε θα πληρείς τα βασικά κριτήρια (όπως το GMC registration).

Οι απόφοιτοι των αγγλικών παν/μιων που κάνουν αίτηση για Φ1 μπορούν να κάνουν αιτήσεις πριν να έχουν τελειώσει τη σχολή, αφού κάνει αυτόματα η σχολή τους την εγγραφή στο GMC και αυτή είναι για provisional registration.

[deinstein]

Άρα κάποιος που τελειώνει ελλάδα αναγκαστικά θα περιμένει στην ελλάδα άλλο ένα χρόνο περίπου γιατί πρέπει να κάνει αιτήσεις πάλι το νοέμβρη?

[Alexandros Boukas]

If you want to apply for the whole foundation programme (as two years in a row) then you might be able to do it while you are still in Uni. (I think applications in Octomber and you need to check with the foundation programme whether you are eligible to apply. I have no idea). However I have not done it. And I am not sure if anyone has. My understanding is that British graduates fill the posts first and then anyone else.

By the time you have your degree and GMC registration will be September the earliest. That means you lost the opportunity to start in August:

For boys: Do the national service first - you can sell it as experience in medicine - and ALS/ATLS while in the army and apply next year for FY1/FY2. I got an FY1.

For girls (or boys): Leave ASAP. Start with locums/LAS whatever. Gain bit of experience, do an audit, get a reference and you can definitely get an FY2 (or 1) the next year.

Good luck!

Τροποποιήθηκε 12 Ιουνίου 2012 από alexoulis

[deinstein]

Thank you! The last thing i would like to ask you, is whether is it possible for somene who cannot get a LAT FY1 position, to enter nhs through a LAS position, given that he does not yet have the university degree as we have already mentioned.....

[Alexandros Boukas]

You mean before graduation?

You cant because in the applications through nhs.jobs you have to enter your GMC status. In order to have GMC status you need to be qualified.

(Even if you can I don't think they will shortlist you as you are not yet qualified).

Get your degree. Apply for GMC and then leave. You can apply from Greece and come when the first interview comes up.

[deinstein]

thank you very much! really, if there were not people like you here it yould be damn difficult to make our way through a totally different health system..... Continue good work!!!

[MoNkEy mAn]

Σε μια συνέντευξη για F2 στο Hull, γνώρισα μία κοπέλα (ελληνίδα) η οποία δεν είχε ακόμα πτυχίο. Είχε ξεκινήσει τη διαδικασία στο GMC με χαρτί που πήρε απ'τη σχολή για expected date of graduation (conditionally if she passes finals etc) και γενικά απ'ότι μου είπε, το gmc ¨ήταν πολύ supportive κτλ και ότι με κάποιο τρόπο θα προλάβαινε να έχει full gmc απλά με το που πέρναγε το τελευταίο μάθημα, έπρεπε να τους πάει αντίστοιχο χαρτί απ'τη σχολή ότι τα έχει περάσει όλα.. Σημείωσε ότι για να σε βοηθήσουν όμως με την διαδικασία ΠΡΕΠΕΙ ΝΑ ΠΑΡΕΙΣ ΤΗΛΕΦΩΝΟ, γιατί γενικά στα mail δεν δίνουν πολύ σημασία.

Οπότε προλαβαίνετε να ξεκινήσετε και διαδικασία από 6ο έτος. ΑΠΛΑ ΡΩΤΗΣΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΤΕ ΤΗΛΕΦΩΝΟ.

[deinstein]

Ευχαριστώ πολύ!! Πραγματικά πολύ κατατοπιστικό το post σου!!!!

[samali]

If you want to apply for the whole foundation programme (as two years in a row) then you might be able to do it while you are still in Uni. (I think applications in Octomber and you need to check with the foundation programme whether you are eligible to apply. I have no idea). However I have not done it. And I am not sure if anyone has. My understanding is that British graduates fill the posts first and then anyone else.

By the time you have your degree and GMC registration will be September the earliest. That means you lost the opportunity to start in August:

For boys: Do the national service first - you can sell it as experience in medicine - and ALS/ATLS while in the army and apply next year for FY1/FY2. I got an FY1.

For girls (or boys): Leave ASAP. Start with locums/LAS whatever. Gain bit of experience, do an audit, get a reference and you can definitely get an FY2 (or 1) the next year.

Good luck!

να σε ρωτησω??μπορω να φυγω για locum και λοιπα οπως λες χωρις να εχω full registretion??γιατι αν κανω full μετα δε μπορω να κανω για foundation...

[Alexandros Boukas]

to do locums you need to have GMC registration. Because we have 6 years of training we have full registration.

The fact that you have full registration shouldn't prevent you from doing an FY1. I had full registration and I got a training LAT FY1.

And it was extremely useful.

(if you go back many pages you will see several posts of mine describing how I struggled in the beginning. It happens to everyone...)

[ChrisV]

Καλησπέρα,

θα ήθελα να κάνω κάποιες ερωτήσεις γιατί δε μπορώ να καταλάβω ακριβώς από αυτά που μου είπαν τηλεφωνικώς από το British Council.

Περιμένω την ορκωμοσία μου(αρχές Ιουλίου) και θέλω να ξέρω ποιες πρέπει να είναι άμεσες κινήσεις μου αφού πάρω το πτυχίο(εννοώ όσον αφορά την αίτηση στο GMC);Πρέπει να έχω ήδη μεταφρασμένα όλα τα δικαιολογητικά καθώς και το IELTS στα χέρια μου για την αίτηση;Μου λένε επίσης ότι χρειάζεται άδεια άσκησης επαγγέλματος(τί πρέπει να κάνω καθώς και να είμαι γραμμένος σε ελληνικό ιατρικό σύλλογο(οποιοδήποτε.

Ευχαριστώ πολύ

[bromptonista]

Μη ρωτάς το British Council. Δες το site του GMC και ρώτα το GMC!

Πρέπει να κάνεις την αίτηση εδώ: http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registration_applications/s3_p1.asp

Θες

• Proof of identity
  
• Evidence of qualifications and compliancy letters
  
• Certificate of Good Standing
  

Όλα στα Αγγλικά, δηλ διαβατήριο, πτυχίο, άδεια άσκησης επαγγέλματος, χαρτί από τον ιατρικό σύλλογο αφού γραφτείς και πάρεις την άδεια άσκησης επαγγέλματος. Αυτοί θα θέλουν και ποινικό μητρώο - ίσως θέλουν και οι Άγγλοι.

[Wicked Witch]

*edited and cross-posted from : http://www.greekmeds...80

as requested

Q: What are my chances of getting a job in *insert specialty of choice* in the UK?*

Start by reading around medical training in the UK in general:http://www.mmc.nhs.uk/default.aspx

Once you get the basics (FY, runthrough specialties, ARCP et c):

Fairly standard rules apply to medical training for all specialties in the UK.

Interested parties would be well advised to:

1. Tally up their training experience to-date*

2. Google the respective Royal College for their specialty of choice. Look for the training section, there's often helpful diagrams and all sort of important info there.

3. Read the person specs for different levels of training. Be very wary of experience caps.

A: 4.Check out the competition ratios for your specialty, for the level of training you will be applying to, per deanery

http://www.mmc.nhs.u...nformation.aspx

5. Research the training job application process - take good note of the timetable. Being a minute late could mean you have to wait a whole year for the next opportunity.

6. If you are, for whatever reason, ineligible to apply for a training job consider applying to trust/staff grade jobs. These jobs often count as training in Greece.

Plan for the future:

7. If you get lucky enough to get a permanent staff grade job in the UK, think hard if its worth it to go back to get your Greek CCT...

If ultimately your plan is to live in the UK you might be saving yourself a lot of needless effort by NOT going back to train to CCT level in Greece. A Greek CCT holder will only get a trust/staff grade job in the UK and NOT a full consultant job.

If you are hoping to draw a UK NHS pension (at the ripe old age of 68) the longer you work in the UK the better off yer gonna be.

Common misconceptions

There seems to be a common misconception (no doubt based on doctor's experience of the Greek training arrangement) that UK trainees have to uproot every 6m.This is not true.

Medical training in the UK is dictated by the GMC and the PMETB and organised by the Royal Colleges (happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)

Training in the UK is structured around 'deaneries' and 'rotations'. Employment (service provision) and training (teaching) are intertwined - no need to get into complicated details***.

Each deanery is responsible for delivering training in many different specialties.

Within a single deanery, for each specialty, training is offered in groups of hospitals comprising a ’rotation’.

Within a rotation trainees rotate in different posts, usually every 6m. They may/not be working in a completely different hospital every 6m (ie more than one jobs may be available in a single site). In each job the trainee is tied to a single consultant clinical supervisor.

All placements within a rotation are within reasonable distance from a central point (usually where the common academic teaching is offered, once a week). Thus, once accepted in a rotation, the trainee will NOT have to move flat/house in order to be able to commute to work every 6 m.

Recap:

Training jobs are offered at deanery level : eg Eastern Deanery .Allocations into a specific rotation take place after appointment depending on candidate ranking and individual requests.

Within rotations trainees are reshuffled every 6m/1y (depending on level of training).Every time reshuffling occurs trainees are requested to submit their preferences for their next post. Their request may/not be headed. As there are more consultant supervisors(=posts) than the maximum number of possible placements within the total training time, trainees do not get to work at every single job within the rotation.

Different deaneries offer different opportunities/perks.

Different rotations offer different opportunities/perks.

Different jobs within rotations offer different opportunities/perks.

All jobs are regularly appraised to ensure that they are fit for training.

Most people can assume that as they go through training they will experience a mixture of 'good' and 'bad' placements.

Food for thought:

The NHS is sinking. Current junior docs will most likely have to work until the age of 68 before they can draw a full pension.

At this point in time an average quality reg(higher trainee) is expected to have secured a permanent consultant job within a few years off their CCT, at the most.

In the imminent future this might change, and regs might be forced to apply to sub-consultant posts.

All things considering...even worse case scenario ...your professional life in the UK is likely to be better than in greekieland.

*NEVER phrase your Q in the grkmds forum in this fashion. It’s considered very bad form.

**if none, no need to worry needlessly about things to come. Apply to FY2 and hope for the best.A quick heuristic indicates that in the current climate (training, economic...) one would be better off seeking their fortune abroad rather than staying in Greekieland.

*** Deaneries accept trainees for training, who are then placed in NHS trusts for service provision (this is a gross simplification!). ‘Career grade’ docs (= non-trainees=trust & staff grade docs) are employed directly by the NHS trust.Trainees are partly paid by the deanery.Ultimately , both work for the same NHS consultants so in most situations the particulars of their salaries are of little significance.If I’m wrong about this, I’m happy to be corrected .

Τροποποιήθηκε 6 Ιουλίου 2012 από Wicked Witch

[Wicked Witch]

http://www.rsm.ac.uk/academ/pyd02.php

For interested parties.

Please note that the monocle and goatee ensemble is not compulsory for a brilliant career in psych....

[prgeorg]

Καλησπέρα και πολλούς χαιρετισμούς σε όλους τους συναδέλφους στο forum.

Αναζητώ και εγώ κάποιες πληροφορίες-γνώμες από όσους έχουν εμπειρία από το βρετανικό σύστημα υγείας.

Για να μη σας κουράζω, τελειώνω την ειδικότητα της αναισθησιολογίας σε περίπου 6 μήνες. Θα ήθελα να ρωτήσω κατά πόσο μπορώ να αρχίσω από την αρχή την ειδικότητα στην Αγγλία, έχοντας τον ελληνικό τίτλο, και αν ναι σε ποια βαθμίδα θα μπορούσα να κάνω αίτηση ( FY2,CT,ST?). Eπίσης διάβασα ότι για intensive care medicine πρέπει ουσιαστικά να ψάξω για ST3....Noμίζω ούτε καν να το σκεφτομαι,σωστα?

Δεν ενδιαφέρομαι για non training posts,αλλά για εκπαίδευση από την αρχή

Ευχαριστώ για το χρόνο που διαθέσατε διαβάζοντας το μήνυμά μου.

[Alexandros Boukas]

αν κάνεις το κόπο να διαβάσεις αντίστοιχα μηνύματα σε άλλες ειδικότητες, θα καταλάβεις ότι δε μπορεις να πάρεις National training number. ίσως εκεί έξω να υπάρχουν LAT ST3-8 το πολύ για έ4να χρόνο. Πόσα, δε ξέρω.

Ως ειδικός θα σου συνιστούσα να ανέβεις και να ψάξεις clinical fellowships / trust posts. Σε επίπεδο SpR.

Πριν όμως μπες στο κόπο να διαβάσεις τουλάχιστον τελευταίεσ 50σελίδες απο εδώ θα σου χρησιμεύσουν...

[Alexandros Boukas]

στην Αγγλιά κάποια πράγματα δε γίνονται. Και ότι και να κάνεις, απλά δε γίνονται. Οπότε ή θα ψαξεις εναλλακτική ή ...